Interview with Edo Tagliavini, an Italian director active in the world of independent cinema as early as the 1990s. Tagliavini talks to us in general about his early works, dwelling on Bloodline, to recent short films that are part of collective horror films: The Truth about the Valdemar Case (P.O.E.: Poetry of Eerie), Loss of breath (P.O.E.: Project of Evil), Habituation (17 to midnight). There is no lack of anticipation about the plot of his newest short film Revealing heart which is part of the horror anthology Mixed Blood.
L: Hi Edo, tell us about yourself, how would you describe yourself?
E: Hmm... "self-portraits" are always difficult and awkward, also because many times the imaginary we have of ourselves is different from what others take in... so trying to play with this mirror image, I can tell you that if I were a cartoon I would be a Gundam mobile suite driven by Lupen III, musically we do a cross over between BadReligion's "American Jesus" and ambient splashes a la Vangelis.
If I were a book I'd probably be under some table to keep the weight unbalanced by a shorter leg straight, but between the pages you'd be reading Kerouak and his "On The Road"... and if we jumped into the animal kingdom, let's say I might be a Wolf: but that's what I see, maybe I'm actually a Gigi La Trottola dancing to the Cramps while reading Mickey Mouse and walking a leashed frog...
L: When did you get into filmmaking and why?
E: When I was 19 I won my first national street skate championship, and with the little million I earned and the graduation gift from my parents, I went off solo for three months to travel around the world.... then after a few Dams exams, I set off again a couple of years later for Mexico, five months, still on my own, and from the sum of these two experiences (plus another six months in Mexico/Guatemala/Belize the following year), I got the urge to tell about what I had seen, heard, and experienced, and try to make people see the places I had visited from a different perspective: the strongest and most immediate form to do this would have been music, but having never tried to play (alas) any instrument and having a somewhat out-of-tune voice, the rock route I discarded a priori... the second way to follow is inevitably cinema, and accomplice a friend of mine from Ravenna (Gerardo Lamattina with whom I made some of my last works, "Valdemar" and "Assuefazione") with whom I worked on live performances in discos such as Cocoricò, I made in '95 a first short film "Coop Karrel", followed by "Matrisoka" and "Il Brufolo", with which I won "150 sec. fixed-theme" in Bellaria in '97... in short, to make a long story short: seeded the germ in my body, the luck of entering the Experimental Center of Cinematography thanks also to the depression leave from military service did the rest... and in poor pitch, I approach cinema because I feel like telling stories.
L: Introduce us broadly to your works that precede Bloodline.
E: To answer this question, let me jump back a little inside to the first year of DAMS in Bologna: the topic of the course was the great Hitchcock, and related texts the "Cahier duCinéma": in them, in describing Hitchcock, they talked about the "PolitiquedesAuteurs," an "ethic" applicable to those directors who do not specialize in one genre, but jump from one to another, but leave their style, their style, imprinted in their films.
Here, perhaps presumptuously I like to feel myself within this description, because (and I'm answering your question) my past works range from the action/fantascientific "Tao" (my Graduation essay), to the grotesque and surreal "World's Best Man" (Silver Ribbon finalist in 2004), going from the drama "The Champion," to the comedies "The Babysitter" and "No Smoking Company" (Golden Globe in 2007), to the noir "Alchemy of Taste," the experimental "Gas Station El Coyote" (2009 Mystfest winner)... the funny thing is that I have always been "identified" as a horror director, although as you can see I had never done horror, just because I like "deppaura" films in the cinema very much...
Let's say that when "Bloodline" was proposed to me, I was still a "virgin."
L: Many of the shorts you've made are non-genre. When did you decide to go the horror route?
E: I anticipated the answer...to add a little something, let's say that horror has always entertained me...growing up with Raimi and Jackson first way, moving on to Cronenberg, Romero and Carpenter, Cameron but having as a "human" reference the great Herzog... the first horror film was proposed to me, and even though the premise of "Bloodline" had so many pitfalls and risks, I accepted the challenge, perhaps especially because I had missed a film with Enzo Decaro, the "virtual" sequel to the short film we made together ("No Smoking Company), which was a nice surreal comedy about northern/southern Europe (Italy vs. Finland).
But I see that the following question is on this very topic, so I skip to the next lines....
L: How did Bloodline come about and develop? What were the biggest difficulties you faced in directing it compared to directing a short film? What were your greatest satisfactions in directing this film?
E: Let's say I go up Bloodline a train already half-composed and ready on the tracks: there were two drafts, one written by producer Virgilio Olivari, and a second one enriched by Tentori-Lizzani: the latter was very funny, with a second part all zombies and massacres but, alas, the money available would not have allowed its rendering... to figures in fact I planned the film referring to 50.000 euros, wages and room and board for three weeks in Neptune (location of the film) included: on balance I ended up preparing a film with less than 10,000 euros.
Anyway, for two months I collaborated with the other producer (Mario Calamita) and their art director (TaiyoYamanuchi) to rewrite the script, coming up with as many as 12 rewrites: the final version is the one we took to the set, at the end of January 2010, while in the meantime the director of photography with whom I had prepared the film and reasoned out the lamp stock (due to disagreements with the production) had backed out, replaced by the very talented Marina Kissopoulos, who in fact found herself two days before the shoot knowing nothing about the story, my directing ideas, the inherited lamp stock, and the use of the Canon 7D, a camera we had chosen to use (first time in Italy for a feature film) for a fair quality/cost compromise: result, every morning while we were having breakfast. We would plan the decoupage (the staging of the camera points) and the cutting of the shots, day by day...
Just before shooting, I also managed to bring in to the crew some of my "trusted" people, such as the very good Paolo Dore (set designer) and the very good Francesca Faiella (the lead)...
We start filming, four weeks of tour de force, immediately exhausted by a running change due to delays in the special effects department: in the middle of the first week, in fact, we get the "props" for the making of the "villain" and they look like carnival games taken at Upim... it's a normal thing to see prototypes that will then be worked up to what is on paper, but normally this should not happen a few days before shooting: so to be on the safe side, we flip the whole directing plan upside down, bringing the "cover set" scenes (those to be shot indoors and normally kept for last because they are indifferent to good or bad weather) to the beginning and moving the scenes with the Surgeon to the end... this also entailed slipping the scenes shot in the kitchen, for me the most difficult because with all the actors in the field, and especially because many of them I did not know them well and did not know how far I could "push" them... from there delays began to accumulate, usually an hour beyond the standard ten hours almost every night, until the final scene for which we went a good four hours beyond normal: so for that I publicly thank the whole crew for their commitment, helpfulness and professionalism.
In the end we closed everything except the scene I favored, but which because of the rains, which came as per Murphy's script in the final days (those of the initial cover set), prevented me force majeure from shooting: it was the showdown between the protagonist and the Surgeon who, finding her hiding in an electrified horse carousel, operated it in an attempt to bring her out into the open, while pitting the famous "explication" against her, which I instead had to reinvent sitting on the spot as we shot the last day, definitely bringing a deficit to the understanding of some things.
Another cut scene, which I insisted on to the last in the script, was the bursting of the parked cars so that they could not escape: it was after all simple... just in the scene of them in the room hear off a loud explosion, maybe "detonate" the window glass, they quickly go out into the open and find two cars (any carcasses taken from a junkyard for a few hundred euros) on fire... whatever, next time!
Regarding the second part of the question, I must say that I had no difficulty in switching from short to long, except for the times in which the same scene (again due to "rainy" causes) was shot days apart... but I think in the film as a whole this is not noticeable.
As for satisfactions, let's say that Italy has been very stingy, also because many times those who write the criticism do so with an arrogance and verbal violence that is really out of place, as if the film's faults were intentional and premeditated by the director, without instead having a sense of the difficulties one encounters in making a film... I am not saying with this that one should extol all indie productions, but there is constructive criticism and celebratory demented criticism, where the writer is in my opinion just a constipated person with a strong inferiority complex.
With this pebble removed, the first person to have supported me and given me strength was a well-known name in the milieu, the great Alex Argentiano, whom I thank for the esteem... then come the criticism from fanzines and foreign blogs, and I began to find comfort: let it be clear in fact that I am the first to know the limitations and see the flaws in the film, but also aware that if seen with an entertainment perspective, the film entertains.
Aesthetically, however, my favorite part is the final part, where Marina's excellent photographic work and Paul's set preparation made the words written on paper effective.
However, if I'm honest, I can't wait to set off on a new project and put "Bloodline" behind me, not because I disown it (I would have otherwise signed with another name), but because it is unrepresentative of my style, and my PolitiquedesAuteurs paw can be seen in a few scenes (the dream among them and the first encounter with the ghost in the bathroom where the final seven shots are a little Hitchcockian homage).
L: Where do you draw inspiration for your works from? How much does reality influence you?
E: Maybe I diluted the question earlier a little bit: I'll be quick here... every day we are bombarded with images, news, faces, sounds words... stories are born this way, from the frankensteinization of the everyday, always infused with a nice surreal and ironic dose.
For example, "Habituation" my episode for the choral film "17 to midnight", I thought of it as I was flying back from Iceland: there was a crying baby on board, and from the plane once you leave you cannot change carriages... so that persistent crying became the man immobilized in bed forced to hear the endless crying of a baby, day and night, for weeks, until exasperated, he finds an extreme solution...
L: Your interesting episode, "The Truth about the Valdemar Case," is part of P.O.E.: Poetry of Eerie (2011), a collective horror story born out of a project by Domiziano Cristopharo and inspired by the works of Poe that are given a contemporary reinterpretation. How did the choice of this story come about and why stuff it with strong black humor?
E: The choice on "Valdemar" was made out of sheer budget consideration...the story involved a man on his deathbed and his mesmerizer nearby: so few locations, few actors... but then of course in rewriting a thing ideas come up, and the spatial unity breaks through the walls of just the bedroom of the story... anyway, again thanks to the great helpfulness of the small crew, the short cost 250 euros, 120 of which I won while filming the "zombie" intent on playing a slot machine: Gerardo Lamattina, in his grotesque makeup done by the very talented Tiziano Martella (with whom I later reworked in "Perdita di Fiato" for Poe 2) was randomly pushing the buttons on the infernal machine, and without realizing it was accumulating randomly made winnings...by the time I realized it, he had already lost half of them, but the coins dropped were enough to invite everyone at the end of the shoot to eat good sushi!
As for humor, let's say it's part of my style, and as much as you want to say about it, Edgar Allan Poe's stories are in my opinion all steeped in black humor--those who don't see it should get a few extra laughs now and then.
L: Instead, what can you tell us about "Loss of Breath," an episode featured in P.O.E: Project of Evil (2013), a sequel to P.O.E. Poetry of Eerie?
E: With "Loss of Breath," I wanted to do a premeditated operation: I wanted to stage everything I was accused of not putting in "Bloodline": naked bodies, strong violence, "indie" looks to please those bloggers I mentioned earlier obviously always seasoning everything with irony.
I find the short well done thanks to the fine performance of Francesco Malcom, whom I had greatly appreciated for his great professionalism in "Bloodline" and Paolo Ricci, the great Klaus Kinki also from "Bloodline." Last but not least the effects of good Titian and the helpfulness once again of Marina and Paolo, as well as a lucky actor of mine that great (not only in size) Alessandro Rella...
Stylistic peculiarity in having it shot silent, with a whole first part recalling the German expressionist period, was again given by an economic necessity: also costing around 200 euros, I could not find a sound engineer for the two days of shooting... I reasoned and, being part of the story the "losing breath" I reversed expectations: live grip mute at the beginning when the actors speak, mental voice (done then quietly in dubbing) once the protagonist lost his breath.
Another thing I enjoyed writing was doing "metacinema," playing with Francis Malcolm's real former porn actor background.
I take this opportunity to say that with Francis we have a new project in the works, a comedy just about the world of porn, in the times of the Internet: a kind of "Tron" in the adult film factory.
L: You also participated in 17 at Midnight, the horror anthology created by Davide Pesca. Your episode, Addiction, is one of the best. In just a few minutes you managed to pack an effective story and convey to the viewer the protagonist's discomfort and torment. How did the idea for this short film come about?
E: Gee, even with this question I anticipated the timing above...I'll add a detail: at first the idea was that of a sound editor who couldn't work because he was continually disturbed by the crying of this child...day/night/day...to the point of driving the man to madness, only to discover at the finale that the man lived in an isolated house on a hill, and therefore the crying was inside his head.
Shortly before shooting, during the Noir Festival in Courmayeur, I slipped on a sheet of ice and broke my fibula... but the delivery of the short could not be postponed, so I took advantage of my "sick" condition and changed the scenic setting: I took a Go Pro and sitting next to the main character I shot the short in about three hours... necessity virtue, I believe it is an indispensable thing to be able to find on the fly solutions to the thousands of unexpected events that happen on a set.
L: How would you describe the experience you had in this project in which 17 other directors besides you took part?
E: They are still projects that, regardless of the number of participants, are all individual, so you get the sense of it all only upon viewing the final film.
However, as far as "17" is concerned, the draw of the succession of episodes was fortuitous, and it blended well with each other shorts that were better successful than others; moreover, the fast duration of each episode (max. 6 minutes) helps the overall enjoyment, and if an episode is not to one's taste, one does not have to wait long times to see a new one.
Let's say that the best part I think will come tonight, when many of us will meet for the first time in Livorno (tonight is the movie premiere) and among wine, food and merriment we will have a nice evening, full of new friendships and future collaborations.
L: Mixed Blood is another collective film (for which the crowdfunding campaign on Indiegogo has just started) born from an idea of Davide Scovazzo. "Revealing Heart" is the title of your episode that stands alongside seven others directed by as many directors. Can you tell us something in advance? Your short film will be about Indians. Why this ethnicity?
E: Some time ago, again with Domitian, I was to participate in the third part of Poe, "Poern", an "erotic" drift of his stories: I didn't have many ideas until one evening by chance, I came across "1000 Ways to Die" (or something like that), where a man electrifies a cow's heart, thus making the organ muscle pulsate and use it as a "steak in the middle of the radiator"... in a nutshell to do some autoeroticism...I liked the idea right away and wrote a version with a man, obsessed with a girl, who then kills to have sex with her heart...but the center of Poe's tale is "repentance," guilt for the action committed: I then transformed the story with a group of teenagers who, in order to punish an Indian boy for merely talking to "their" girl, force him to copulate with a cow's heart, an animal sacred to them...the act of that impure act drove the Indian boy mad... however, I can't stay on schedule, so I "jump the gun" and readjust the story for mixed blood, fitting in perfectly as "directives"...I change a few things and shift the guilt to one of the "executioners," giving the story a whole again...did I spoil too much?
L: Maybe so. What are your plans for the future? What's in the pipeline? Possibility of another horror feature film?
E: In addition to the long story with Francesco Malcom (also written together with Daniele Rutigliano), with Luca Pedretti, a screenwriter from Bologna, we are working on his story about EVPs, the "ghost" audio recordings: the screenplay is ready, we already have a small budget, we are trying to bring in some more "pocket money" but let's say we would like to start with the shooting in September/October, between Rome and Colobraro, in the province of Matera.
L: What do you think about the current situation of horror cinema?
E: It is very active and fruitful, although for many works, especially short films, I see that we still bind ourselves too much to "situations" more than to stories, to staging "moments" more than to narrative developments... As for unity instead, apart from these "choral" projects that in fact bind us on paper, a more compact "human" overall vision is perhaps still lacking, although of course there are exceptions: out of all I cannot fail to mention the friendship, as well as the professional esteem, with Domiziano (Cristopharo) and (Raffaele) Picchio.
I would like there to be a more compact factory, although in the light of the then, there are many small factories: for example, Boni-Ristori are now producing another director's long film, Albanesi has already gone on to produce two films... in short, realities that I hope will not come to war with each other but will act as a united battering ram head, so as to bring more genre films back to theaters, because on home video sales alone one cannot really survive...
L: The horror movies that you never tire of seeing and consider the cornerstones of the genre?
E: Well, I like Carpenter's cinematography, at least up to "Seed of Madness," although the horror film I find most perfect is "Lord of Evil" ... but "The Thing" gives it a go, too!
Fulci I find brilliant, but I didn't grow up with his films: however, when he makes me punch a shark out of the zombie coming out of the seabed, there I am moved!
Bava's "Demons" I find very good, Stivaletti's make-up is really high: you can tell he wanted to say something....
But the movie I remember in my childhood with the most terror is the bad "Hamityville Horror": the blood coming out of the walls terrified me, and I, who always slept attached to the wall, had to change my sleeping position.
Ah, Cronenberg: his films are a constant search for the sense of "mutation"...from the flesh to the mind, and his "Videodrome" I love madly...and let's not forget Romero and his first trilogy.
L: An opinion on this interview?
E: Finally some new questions beyond "Bloodline," thank you!
L: Please leave a message for the DarkVeins community and everyone reading this interview!
E: Sorry for the long-windedness of certain answers, but I believe that sometimes understanding certain mechanisms better can also lead the viewer to "evolve" as a filmic user: it is essential for us to have your support, your criticism, your encouragement, because a film is not made (only) out of a form of self-centered selfishness, but out of an energetic "vampirism," and pleasing as many people as possible is what we hope for whenever we create something.
Thank you for your patience... and I take this opportunity to send a kiss to Lumi, my 10-year-old who is always hoping sooner or later I can make a movie about unicorns!
L: And we thank you for your time and wish you good luck!